The first is in response to the idea that you can not teach prayer. I do agree that there are dangers in teaching prayer. Specifically that you can be prescriptive and straight jacket people into a particular way of praying which can be unhelpful. That may well be one of the reasons Jesus didn't teach his disciples to pray. However I do think teaching about prayer is important. Maybe what I mean by this is that sharing and understanding some of the experience of other Christians gives people a starting block on which to build and experiment with ways of praying. I wonder did the disciples talk and share where they were at with prayer, I suspect they did and learned of each other. What about the early church they got together to pray i suspect they must have learned off each other to some extent. Yes they probably picked up each others bad habits to!!!
Anyway I have certainly found it helpful at times to hear about different ways of praying. There are many wonderful ways that different people have approached prayer and they range from formal to wonderfully creative and imaginative forms of prayer. Personally I love getting out in the countryside, or sitting down to play music or draw reflections on bible passages (Stick men do nicely for this)
It's easy to forget those of us who have been doing this for along time how difficult it can be when you first start, not really knowing where to start, or finding the methods you have picked up limiting and needing new and fresh ways of praying that express where you are with God now.
I love the Gideon story, it is so what I want to do sometimes with God. Just get him to do a miracle or too! Once I blackmailed God over a game of Yatzee. That is I said to God "if I don't get a Yatzee with my next throw I wont believe in you any more" and I meant it. I got a Yatzee the next throw in fact I got two in a row!!!! Oh! do I feel bad about that now, not suggesting people try that one. Shame I didn't think to try Ellie's chocolate idea!!
I remember some time ago and have heard it since at St John's about the idea of "playing with God". I find this a wonderful idea that connecting with God can be fun, creative, playful and simple and all the other things play is. oh yes a place to learn.
Yes I agree with what was said on Sunday about learning to pray. It's about learning, it's about not being afraid of getting it wrong. If your not sure watch how children play. We adult are quick to forget how important play is.
I was wondering about sharing ideas hear of the different ways people might approach prayer?
I was wondering about sharing ideas hear of the different ways people might approach prayer?
I think that prayer is a very personal thing. Different people feel comfortable with different ways of interacting with God and that's how it should be.
Personally I'm not a fan of the "Oh Lord..." or "Dear God...." style of prayer when I'm talking to God - I wouldn't start a conversation with a person by saying "Dear Fred...", God knows I'm talking to him and mostly I do just that.
If I'm fed up or worried about something I tell him about it, sometimes I get cross at him, sometimes I ask for help, sometimes I say thank you if things are going well... mostly it's as though I'm talking to someone who's standing in front of me except with more honesty. Since God knows what I'm thinking I guess diplomacy is a tad pointless Then again anyone who knows me will know that I generally think diplomacy is a tad pointless anyway
Of course sometimes you don't even need words... sometimes it's just about sharing a feeling.
I was taught to pray every night as I got into bed. That was a good thing to learn.
The prayer went: God bless mummy and daddy etc etc, working its way through my immediate family. It ended with 'God bless me'.
The prayer never changed. It was the same every night and I was never encouraged to add to it (except when my brother was born).
So it was a start, but it was only a start. It presented prayer as asking God to do stuff for me - which is limited, to say the least. And it failed to be specific in any way'
I am hugely grateful to my parents for getting me started. From there, I am basically 'self-taught' - rather like my saxophone and guitar playing.
 So that is my experience. People may need some help to get started. I did.Â
As a young child, prayer for me was one of those obscure things grown-ups got me to do, a bit like eating up my greens. Prayers were learnt by rote in a language that wasn't mine, because somehow "it will do you good". I will always love "Lighten our darkness, Lord, we beseech thee..." probably because I associate it with the end of the school day (I was quite scared of the teacher who taught us to say it after we'd put our chairs up on our desks!)
At the age of ten a family crisis caused me to call out to God from a deep part of me; I remember realising that God could handle the situation and all the feelings that seemed so overwhelming. My little brother came out of his coma and made a full recovery, and my real prayer life had begun.
I don't seem to have moved on much! "HELP!", uttered any way I can (verbal, non-verbal, liturgical, musical, symbolic, you name it) has been my prayer ever since. And guess what, He does. (Occasionally on a good day I even remember to say please and thank you too.)
My prayers as a child were very much like many of yours .....God bless Mummy, God bless Daddy... working my way through the whole family if I hadn't fallen asleep before then!!! I try to have a 'chat' once I'm in bed and always start with thanking God for all that I am blessed with. This normally goes on for so long that I fall asleep(!) as I have so much to be thankful for. If I haven't fallen asleep then I pray for those who I feel need my prayers. I have had one or two prayers of complete desparation where I have been beside myself with fear or panic and he has answered them.  I do have 'chats' during the day which are much more random and again normally prayers of thanks. He must get sick of me thanking him all the time but I constantly feel that looming ahead will be darker times and I am just so grateful for the good times at the moment. Sounds a bit sickly doesn't it?!!
Never did the whole praying with my Mum & Dad thing. We did pray in school assemblies though. I do not think they are allowed to do that in the same way now. I could be wrong but I thought the whole PC thing and respecting diversity (not that I have a problem with that) thing has ment that they do not do assemblies the way I did as a child. I do not really remember how we prayed, I think it was probabaly the shampoo possition with hands together and eyes closed.
I agree with you Janey though about the just talking openly and honest with God where ever you are. Or just expressing how you feel without words sometimes, when you just can't articulate what you feel. There really is no hidding, God knows it all already and just wants us to communicate with him. I still need to clean my ears out though!!!!!!!!!!
I used to pray in school assembly and remember saying the Lords Prayer. I even remember school playing Ebony and Ivory as a "hymn" tune and recall it was to be played at a record speed of 33 but everyone thought it was 45 and subsequently Paul and Stevie got speeded up on more than one occasion! Mostly in school we had songs to reflect on and therefore had themed prayers.
Apart from prayers at junior school, I found own way to pray when I was a lot older. Like Janey and Oliveobell, I talk openly to God wherever I am.
Maybe Rob can answer this one - Where does co-incidence end and the answering of prayers begin? I've had a lot of co-incidences lately and am not sure if its God talking to me. I've asked a few people and they have mixed views.
I think that when we break free from time and space and can see our lives from God's angle, we will see two things: with one eye we will see how the great majority of our life was chance and coincidence and that the important thing was how we coped with it; but when we look with the other eye, we will see that God was in everything and that no leaf ever fell from a tree without his good will.
That probably isn't very helpful, but somehow we have to hold those two opposites together.
To look at it another way: we get ourselves in a tangle if we think of answers to prayer as God occasionally getting off his backside and doing a little something to help us. Much more often, answers to prayer are those moments when we get off our backsides and momentarily tune into what God has been doing all along.
If you're seeing more indications of God at work around you, it's not because he's just come off his tea break, it's more likely that you're looking in the right direction.Â
Thank you for clarifying that. I think I know what you mean, although I'm not 100% sure whether I had prayers answered or whether I had a lot of co-incidences.
Here's another question for you Rob - I have put a prayer on the wall about my mum's friend with her hip operation, and pray that she makes it through. If my prayer is answered the way I would like, then she should be OK, but if not, does this mean that God had other ideas for her from the start or does it mean he's not listening to me? Or is that just life!
Several things occur to me on this.
The first is in response to the idea that you can not teach prayer. I do agree that there are dangers in teaching prayer. Specifically that you can be prescriptive and straight jacket people into a particular way of praying which can be unhelpful. That may well be one of the reasons Jesus didn't teach his disciples to pray. However I do think teaching about prayer is important. Maybe what I mean by this is that sharing and understanding some of the experience of other Christians gives people a starting block on which to build and experiment with ways of praying. I wonder did the disciples talk and share where they were at with prayer, I suspect they did and learned of each other. What about the early church they got together to pray i suspect they must have learned off each other to some extent. Yes they probably picked up each others bad habits to!!!
Anyway I have certainly found it helpful at times to hear about different ways of praying. There are many wonderful ways that different people have approached prayer and they range from formal to wonderfully creative and imaginative forms of prayer. Personally I love getting out in the countryside, or sitting down to play music or draw reflections on bible passages (Stick men do nicely for this)
It's easy to forget those of us who have been doing this for along time how difficult it can be when you first start, not really knowing where to start, or finding the methods you have picked up limiting and needing new and fresh ways of praying that express where you are with God now.
I love the Gideon story, it is so what I want to do sometimes with God. Just get him to do a miracle or too! Once I blackmailed God over a game of Yatzee. That is I said to God "if I don't get a Yatzee with my next throw I wont believe in you any more" and I meant it. I got a Yatzee the next throw in fact I got two in a row!!!! Oh! do I feel bad about that now, not suggesting people try that one. Shame I didn't think to try Ellie's chocolate idea!!
I remember some time ago and have heard it since at St John's about the idea of "playing with God". I find this a wonderful idea that connecting with God can be fun, creative, playful and simple and all the other things play is. oh yes a place to learn.
Yes I agree with what was said on Sunday about learning to pray. It's about learning, it's about not being afraid of getting it wrong. If your not sure watch how children play. We adult are quick to forget how important play is.
I was wondering about sharing ideas hear of the different ways people might approach prayer?
I was wondering about sharing ideas hear of the different ways people might approach prayer?
I think that prayer is a very personal thing. Different people feel comfortable with different ways of interacting with God and that's how it should be.
Personally I'm not a fan of the "Oh Lord..." or "Dear God...." style of prayer when I'm talking to God - I wouldn't start a conversation with a person by saying "Dear Fred...", God knows I'm talking to him and mostly I do just that.
If I'm fed up or worried about something I tell him about it, sometimes I get cross at him, sometimes I ask for help, sometimes I say thank you if things are going well... mostly it's as though I'm talking to someone who's standing in front of me except with more honesty. Since God knows what I'm thinking I guess diplomacy is a tad pointless
Then again anyone who knows me will know that I generally think diplomacy is a tad pointless anyway 
Of course sometimes you don't even need words... sometimes it's just about sharing a feeling.
I was taught to pray every night as I got into bed. That was a good thing to learn.
The prayer went: God bless mummy and daddy etc etc, working its way through my immediate family. It ended with 'God bless me'.
The prayer never changed. It was the same every night and I was never encouraged to add to it (except when my brother was born).
So it was a start, but it was only a start. It presented prayer as asking God to do stuff for me - which is limited, to say the least. And it failed to be specific in any way'
I am hugely grateful to my parents for getting me started. From there, I am basically 'self-taught' - rather like my saxophone and guitar playing.
 So that is my experience. People may need some help to get started. I did.Â
As a young child, prayer for me was one of those obscure things grown-ups got me to do, a bit like eating up my greens. Prayers were learnt by rote in a language that wasn't mine, because somehow "it will do you good". I will always love "Lighten our darkness, Lord, we beseech thee..." probably because I associate it with the end of the school day (I was quite scared of the teacher who taught us to say it after we'd put our chairs up on our desks!)
At the age of ten a family crisis caused me to call out to God from a deep part of me; I remember realising that God could handle the situation and all the feelings that seemed so overwhelming. My little brother came out of his coma and made a full recovery, and my real prayer life had begun.
I don't seem to have moved on much! "HELP!", uttered any way I can (verbal, non-verbal, liturgical, musical, symbolic, you name it) has been my prayer ever since. And guess what, He does. (Occasionally on a good day I even remember to say please and thank you too.)
My prayers as a child were very much like many of yours .....God bless Mummy, God bless Daddy... working my way through the whole family if I hadn't fallen asleep before then!!! I try to have a 'chat' once I'm in bed and always start with thanking God for all that I am blessed with. This normally goes on for so long that I fall asleep(!) as I have so much to be thankful for. If I haven't fallen asleep then I pray for those who I feel need my prayers. I have had one or two prayers of complete desparation where I have been beside myself with fear or panic and he has answered them.  I do have 'chats' during the day which are much more random and again normally prayers of thanks. He must get sick of me thanking him all the time but I constantly feel that looming ahead will be darker times and I am just so grateful for the good times at the moment. Sounds a bit sickly doesn't it?!!
Never did the whole praying with my Mum & Dad thing. We did pray in school assemblies though. I do not think they are allowed to do that in the same way now. I could be wrong but I thought the whole PC thing and respecting diversity (not that I have a problem with that) thing has ment that they do not do assemblies the way I did as a child. I do not really remember how we prayed, I think it was probabaly the shampoo possition with hands together and eyes closed.
I agree with you Janey though about the just talking openly and honest with God where ever you are. Or just expressing how you feel without words sometimes, when you just can't articulate what you feel. There really is no hidding, God knows it all already and just wants us to communicate with him. I still need to clean my ears out though!!!!!!!!!!
I used to pray in school assembly and remember saying the Lords Prayer. I even remember school playing Ebony and Ivory as a "hymn" tune and recall it was to be played at a record speed of 33 but everyone thought it was 45 and subsequently Paul and Stevie got speeded up on more than one occasion! Mostly in school we had songs to reflect on and therefore had themed prayers.
Apart from prayers at junior school, I found own way to pray when I was a lot older. Like Janey and Oliveobell, I talk openly to God wherever I am.
Maybe Rob can answer this one - Where does co-incidence end and the answering of prayers begin? I've had a lot of co-incidences lately and am not sure if its God talking to me. I've asked a few people and they have mixed views.
Good question, Floris!
I think that when we break free from time and space and can see our lives from God's angle, we will see two things: with one eye we will see how the great majority of our life was chance and coincidence and that the important thing was how we coped with it; but when we look with the other eye, we will see that God was in everything and that no leaf ever fell from a tree without his good will.
That probably isn't very helpful, but somehow we have to hold those two opposites together.
To look at it another way: we get ourselves in a tangle if we think of answers to prayer as God occasionally getting off his backside and doing a little something to help us. Much more often, answers to prayer are those moments when we get off our backsides and momentarily tune into what God has been doing all along.
If you're seeing more indications of God at work around you, it's not because he's just come off his tea break, it's more likely that you're looking in the right direction.Â
Thank you for clarifying that. I think I know what you mean, although I'm not 100% sure whether I had prayers answered or whether I had a lot of co-incidences.
Here's another question for you Rob - I have put a prayer on the wall about my mum's friend with her hip operation, and pray that she makes it through. If my prayer is answered the way I would like, then she should be OK, but if not, does this mean that God had other ideas for her from the start or does it mean he's not listening to me? Or is that just life!