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10 November, 2008 - 13:53 — kath@vicarage

Ok
y'all, Question 1: Why is it that I'm the one getting us started discussing "walking humbly", when I haven't been in church for two weeks? To make it easier, it's a multiple choice question:-

(a) I am talking to myself again,

( No one wants to stick their neck out,

(c) No one cares, or 

(d) "other" (please state.) 

Question 2, does all of the above relate in any way to the topic of humility?

(a) yes, we're all too humble to think anyone wants to hear from us,

( yes, we're all too proud to cast our pearls before swine,

(c) no, what is that mad woman twittering on about now? or,

(d) none of the above, we were only wanting to look at the forum, not to actually engage with it...

Don't look at me, I'm not going to be getting out my red pen to correct your answers. It's only a chance to chat for heaven's sake... It's not compulsory (apparently you know that already...)

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10 November, 2008 - 14:05 — Julia M

I haven't been present  at any discussions yet either, so am eagerly
waiting for someone who has been to fill me in & kick it all off!

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10 November, 2008 - 14:55 — kath@vicarage

The b in brackets isn't supposed to be a cool smiley but it seems I'm denied access to edit it!

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10 November, 2008 - 20:18 — Oliveobell

Its not always easy to know where to start, especially with this subject! I think this topic is far harder than to talk about than Acting Justly, and Loving Mercy. Not sure why but ... It seems it is. 

Possibly because we would all probably like to think we are but the reality is most of us are not. Graeme description of Humility was that it is like being cool. If you think you are cool and try to be cool then invariably you are not cool. Cool people are cool because they are genuinely cool , they do not try to be other than they are. Apply that to humility and those we see are humble are not humble because they try to be but because the outward that we see reflects the intergrity with in from which they act. They do not have to try because they are. 

Where does that leave us, depending on God, relating to him and letting him change us from the inside I suspect and being truthful with our selves about who we are not projecting onto others. 

Additionally Rob added that humility is choosing the bruised apple, when you could choose any of the non bruised ones. So that no one else has to take the bruised one. Simple but true.

On both weeks the story of Jesus washing his deciples feet has been shared as an example of humility. Choosing to act as the lowlest of servants, when you could have all the honour and glory. 

in the discussion at the 11:30 I have to say it all felt very difficult to talk about. You can not ask after all when do you think you last act humbly? cause if you do your not being humble!!! 

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11 November, 2008 - 10:07 — christineB

if someone is humble I am thinking it woudl be easy for them to be
taken for granted, treated like a doormat etc. can you be humble yet
still assertive? 

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11 November, 2008 - 19:24 — Oliveobell

Humility must come from confidence in our relationship with God and is not to be confused with low self-esteeme/ self confidence was the conclusion of the discussions I was part of. There was a sence that God has to build us up to be able to be humble. So the choice is a choice not a response based on fear. Gods ways are love not fear. 

assertiveness often get confused i think. People often think they are being assertive when actually they are being aggressive. A rough definition of assertiveness is expressing your own needs while respecting the needs/ rights of the other person. It is non confrontational, but expressed calmly with out blame. or something like that. i could look up a proper definition. if any one is actually interested in it. 

The doormat thing! is tricky. I do wonder about that my self. Is humility open to abuse, and at what point is that wrong. 

I found my self thinking about Jesus examples, there were times when he climbed out of windows and avoided crowds because he needed time with god or his disciples at other times he sacrificed his need to rest with the needs of the people. My be if you're God centered you respond as God calls you.

I do not know I am blathering !!!! not sure of an answer really

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12 November, 2008 - 08:48 — christine

I have just looked up "humble" in the dictionary.some of the words help - some dont! 

low, insignificant, mean, not proud, modest, meek, submissive.

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12 November, 2008 - 11:09 — kath@vicarage

I think O's comments about how we get humility confused with low self-esteem, and assertiveness with aggression, are really important points.

re. definitions- We struggle to accept that we are low and insignificant. (Presumably 'mean' is in the older sense of the word, ie. 'there's not much to me', rather than 'I'm stingy'.) Yet we can all relate to that "Go out and look at all the stars and have a sense of perspective about yourself" thing. (Not that you can see many stars around here, but you know what I mean.)

I think it's because we have such trouble holding two 'opposing' ideas in our head at once: God gives us significance and raises us up. Both are true. Another glorious paradox. Walking humbly involves balancing.

Personally I get thrown off balance when it seems people under-rate me and I'm rubbish at trusting God to look after me if that's happening. But (I'm having a big thing about status anxiety at the mo!) I can also tend to teeter over the other way and disrespect everyone else because I've decided only God's good opinion is worth having. Ooops. 

Anyone else have the same trouble?

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12 November, 2008 - 11:46 — christineB

always! I think though when I start thinking that people under-rate me what is really happening is that I am under-rating myself. I like to think that God never under-rates us or over-rates us- he loves us just as we are. I'd be interested to hear more about your status anxiety - is that something you can share? I am getting in a tangle with this humility thing cos I think it is making us look at ourselves too much which isn't humble- so now that I am in a knot with that- I'm off to do some humble housework. "peace be with you" to whoever reads this...........

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12 November, 2008 - 22:12 — Oliveobell

I think I am inclined to agree Christine. I'm not sure humbleness is about self esteem. I find my self going back to relationship with God. we are not low or insignificant, we have a place given to us by God, and our part to play. Trusting that in a balanced way like Kath says, ie not having an under or over related opinion of our selves, but an honest appraisal, but that in its own right doesn't seem sufficient to describe humility so i would add that it might include being focused on God and responding accordingly, knowing something of Gods ways and following that example. May be that is humility?????????????????????? i don't know